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25 August 2006

Germany And Israel In New Nuclear Submarines' Joint Venture ...

Good gracious me (and him), it seems we're slowing down in our dotage. We were 50 flipping hours late finding this tasty tale. Though there may still be many around who haven't yet heard about the IDF's latest, awesome aquatic-armament acquisitions.

The following headline is from Tuesday's online edition of the Jerusalem Post -- as is the illustration.

Exclusive: Israel buys 2 German subs

In the face of Iran's race to obtain nuclear power, Israel signed a contract with Germany last month to buy two Dolphin-class submarines that will, according to foreign reports, provide superior second-strike nuclear capabilities, The Jerusalem Post has learned.

The submarines will be assembled in Germany and provided with a propulsion system allowing them to remain underwater for far longer than the submarines currently in the Israel Navy's fleet.

Further reading of the report revealed the following.
In 1993, Iran bought two Russian Kilo-class submarines and eight mini-submarines from North Korea, although officials said this was not the only reason the system was being considered. In 2005, Israel spotted a Western submarine snooping off its shore.
Elsewhere in the piece we found this -- which was also news to us.

The navy already has three Dolphin-class submarines. They are the most expensive weapon platforms in the IDF's arsenal. Germany donated the first two submarines after the first Gulf War and split the cost of the third with Israel.

Continuing to read, we came across this.
The submarines will also incorporate specifications gleaned from Israeli experience. The Dolphins currently in the navy's fleet were tailor-made for Israel's needs and reportedly have considerable operational capability.

They are designed for a crew of 35 and can support 10 passengers. They have a maximum speed of 20 knots, a range of 4,500 kilometers and, according to Jane's Defense Weekly, the capability to launch cruise missiles carrying nuclear warheads.
Germans and Jews in joint monetary and military ventures, eh? And apparently have been for quite some time.

It's a weird old world we're living in, ain't it?

Still, we suppose it's just as the old saying says -- stranger things happen at sea.

Click here for the complete article.



Anonymous Anonymous said...

Love of money is the root of all evil.

12:21 am  
Blogger Sophia said...


This is no joke. I am fearing a nuclear war in the region. The thing is Israel will never accept defeat, any kind of defeat, neither any kind of negociated peace with its neighbours and it is beefing its nuclear capacity up for this moment, for the moment of defeat...

1:54 am  
Anonymous Griffon said...

I would like to know who and what is causing this high level of co-operation and support.
It isn't be the first time in history, of course.

3:55 am  
Blogger Pam said...

this is terrifying. the us and israel are more of a threat to world peace than any other nations, i do believe.

4:04 am  
Blogger markfromireland said...

I don't get why you're so suprised Richard the Germans have given massive monetary and military support to Israel since the time of Chancellor Erhard. Indeed up to the late 70's the US support was distinctly small potatoes compared to the level of that from Germany.

10:46 am  
Anonymous whoever said...

Israel got their first Atom Bomb thanks to we Brits.

And I agree 100% with anonymous, Sophia and Pam. At the same time, I'd like Griffon's question answered by anyone who knows. Also, Mark's 'news' about Germany's long time connection definately comes as news to me.

8:57 pm  
Blogger markfromireland said...

Griffon actually Wikipedia have two fairly good sets of information best place to start IMO:

short version first:

"Israel and the Near East
Following German history during the Holocaust, one of Postwar Germany's aims were to establish and maintain relations of Wiedergutmachung with the State of Israel. Starting with the Reparations Agreement in 1952, support for the national security of the State of Israel is central to German foreign policy.

Germany has been actively involved in the Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty in 1979, the Oslo Accords (1993) which led to the Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty in 1994 and the continuous Peace process in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict which make Germany arguably (next to the United States) Israel's closest ally.

Germany also holds a special relationship with Turkey and is active in maintaining diplomatic relationships with Iran."

My emphasis in above.

Long version(s)

Main articles: Germany-Israel relations, Jews in Germany, and Iran-Germany relations

If you want to put in some serious reading time on the roots of much of what's going on today then I recommend:

"Top Hat, Tuxedo and Cannons: Israeli Foreign Policy From 1948 to 1956 as a Field of Study" To skim - In firefox just do CTRL+F for Germany and keep hitting the find next button. The whole thing is well worth a read though. The pattern set in those years continues to the present day. - I suggest you print it if you're going to read it in its entirety it's 78 a4 page long.

Correction to previous comment: I should have said Chancellor Adenauer not Chancellor Erhard - sorry thinking of a different agreement.

Whoever: When you've been "involved with" something for a long time (more than 25 years now in my case.) There's sometimes a tendency to forget that what is "ABC" to you is startlingly new info to the layman. Hopefully the wiki links will get anyone interested started.

12:50 am  
Anonymous Griffon said...

Thanks, Mark. I've come across refs and anecdotes over the years that mention co-operation of varying sorts dating back to during and even before WW11.
But I've never come across that "Aha" bit of info that tells me who is actually driving the bus and where they are going with it, if that makes any sense.
As far as I can tell so far, the only joint venture between these two apparently opposing groups is the Bank for International Settlements (BIS) which, of course, has more power now than in any time in it's sordid history.
Anyway, you've given me lots of reading to do!

5:08 am  
Anonymous Griffon said...

Robert Fisk calls it for what it is.
Why should Europeans protect Israel?

The enlarged Nato/Unifil force is not going to preserve 'peace'

By Robert Fisk

"Self-deception - or self-delusion - has become a cancer throughout both the Middle East and the west; and amid the EU countries that are now bidding to send their young men to sacrifice their lives in Lebanon. They are going to preserve peace, we are told; they are going to maintain a ceasefire; they are going to save lives.

So a big Ho-Ho-Ho from the world of reality. The enlarged Nato/Unifil force is not going to preserve "peace". It is going to maintain a " buffer" zone to protect Israel after the latter's dismal failure to destroy, disarm and liquidate the Iranian-armed Hizbollah guerrilla army over the past seven weeks. The UN may deny that it is a buffer zone for the Israelis - but if it was a buffer zone to protect Lebanese (the numerically higher victims of this latest war), it would be based, surely, inside the Israeli frontier. But no, it is there to protect Israel.

Note how the Arabs have accepted this. Note how we have accepted this"

2:05 pm  
Anonymous Griffon said...

Meanwhile, back at the oil well, ......
Russia spins global energy spider's web
By W Joseph Stroupe

"The vast bulk of the world's oil, gas and strategic minerals resources either is coming under or is already under the control of authoritarian, or less-than-democratic, or leftist, or otherwise radical regimes either with a decidedly anti-Western political stance and ideology or pointedly decreased sensitivities to strategic US interests."

It's looking increasingly likely that not only is Israel on an imperial rampage to fend off it's economic collapse, but so is the US.
It's ironic that they are both in a real struggle for survival but can't admit it!

The problem is how to stop these two international maniacs from throwing a tantrum with nuclear weapons or just plain old "conventional" weapons for that matter once they figure (if they haven't already) that they have nothing to lose.

2:19 pm  
Anonymous kiwi said...

Richard, Mark and Griffon - thanks for enlightening me on so much stuff.

7:46 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Latest == Now Iran launches missile == from submarine.

1:46 am  
Anonymous Griffon said...

Thanks for the nod, Kiwi.

The Saturn Missile in the link provided by Anonymous could well be the Sunburn Missile. The US Navy has NO defense against this deadly weapon. For more info see -
Iran: A Bridge too Far?

The weapon that could defeat the US in the Gulf

I've linked this before but it's worth a re-read, IMO

2:57 am  
Blogger markfromireland said...

You're welcome Kiwi :-)

6:46 am  
Blogger Richard said...

Sophia, I know it's no joking matter. Nothing like this ever is.

anon, Pam and whoever,agreed all round.

Griffon, as always, thanks for the links. You too, anon.

Mark, don't let my missus hear you. She's forever reminding me that I don't know 'everything'. Like some of the others though, I thank you for regular pointers & links - and can tell you that I'm a quicker learner. Ta!

kiwi, you're welcome - my privilege - I do my best.

2:11 pm  
Anonymous Tom V. said...

I know I state the obvious, but these extremely dangerous new weapon systems are to give improved capabilities and credibilities to Israel's less than subtle threat to the World: If they go, everyone else will go. a.k.a. 'The Samson Option.'

Prior to this capability, they could 'only' threatened major European capitals credibly. With these 'extenders', basicaly everyone else is in danger. We can all thanks the damn 'kraut' government for this.

I'm sure, if the time comes, they too will receive their own special 'thank you' note, as a just reward, from the Zionists who have gone berserk.

2:27 pm  

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